quote:
Why all the anti-budget airline chat?? They've totally changed modern travel for the better (IMHO). Anyway I agee with the environmental argument but it applies to all airlines not just budget.


It doesn't apply to all airlines at all. Budget flying has enabled people who wouldn't normally fly, or wouldn't fly as often, to fly just about anytime they want. Budget flying has increased passenger numbers, and therefore pollution. People who fly, and people who use cars are people who pollute the air we all need to live healthy lives. And polluters must pay a fair price for the damage they cause.

I drive, and I fly, and I should pay the price too.

Most people are unaware (at the moment) of the very real impact of global warming. People who spend time in the mountains are probably more aware than the average joe of the damage being done to our environment. We complain about the dwindling snow in Scotland, and complain that we have less skiing weekends, but that is just a sympton of the overall disease. And not being able to ski is a pretty unimportant thing in the long run, when compared to the destruction of whole eco-systems.

I think the new Scottish parliament could really take a leading role in turning things around. I think Scotland should be re-forested to pre Industrial levels with native trees. It will take a long time, and cost a lot of money, but I can't think of a more worthwhile cause.

And I totally agree with David. I visit Scotland in the springtime, and I get a day or two's boarding in. Boarding isn't my only reason for visiting, but it's brilliant that I can spend some time doing that too. Scotland has got some of the best scenery in the world, and that's why I visit.

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Post Edited (15:32 hrs on Mon 22 Mar 04)

Interesting discussion.

One unavoidable, albeit uncomfortable point, is that the influx of budget airlines into Scotland has made (and will continue to make) this country considerably more attractive to tourism and business leisure/conference trade.

Let's face it Scotland is not cheap compared to the EU and without these budget flights, a further obstacle would be faced in the challenge to bolster tourism in Scotland and sustain the Highlands economy.

The price of progress? A ring-fenced environmental tax on air travel?

P

Quote:

quote:
Why all the anti-budget airline chat?? They've totally changed modern travel for the better (IMHO). Anyway I agee with the environmental argument but it applies to all airlines not just budget.

It doesn't apply to all airlines at all.

I knew this would be miss-understood, what I meant was that the environmental impact of an aircraft is the same whether it belongs to Ryanair or BA. While I agree that budget airlines have boosted air travel my point was that all airlines should be taxed for their environmental impact in the same way.

Anyway as Pablo says this boom in low cost travel has been great for the scottish economy.

Quote:

I think Scotland should be re-forested to pre Industrial levels with native trees

Quote:

I visit Scotland

That idea is clearly a non-starter. Are you suggesting that we knock down towns, rip up roads and stop agriculutre to re-plant woodland so that tourists can say isn't Scotland beautiful and quaint. Oh and all the people and communities that make a living off the land, if they wouldn't mind just going away somewhere that would be great. Anyway I find it slightly patronising to be told by someone who visits Scotland what we should or shouldn't be doing. But then I'm just a sensitive type

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Actually most human rather than climate induced reduction in native pine forests occured in the lead up to the industrial revolution not since it.

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quote:
Are you suggesting that we knock down towns, rip up roads and stop agriculutre to re-plant woodland so that tourists can say isn't Scotland beautiful and quaint.

I'd rather Scotland was beautiful and natural (rather than quaint). Considering the road density in the Highlands, ripping them up wouldn't be necessary, because they aren't there anyway. Surrey is one of the most densly populated counties in the UK, it's also the county with the most trees. Work that one out. And don't start me on Farmers. They, more than any other group have destroyed the natural diversity of the countryside in Britain, but I think that's for another forum.



quote: Anyway I find it slightly patronising to be told by someone who visits Scotland what we should or shouldn't be doing. But then I'm just a sensitive type

I think you are! I visit Scotland because it's my home. I care deeply about the environment though. And we need to protect and nuture it. If that means inconveniencing people, or putting restrictions on their habits and lifestyle, so be it. Some things are more important.

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Post Edited (15:51 hrs on Mon 22 Mar 04)

Bringing this thread right back to some of the orginal issues, regarding ticket price and varying prices. There is some degree of adjustment in terms of conditions, but also demand/time of year plays a part.

However speaking to some aussie ppl on CairnGorm Mountain the other week, they were amazed that CairnGorm was charging less than normal, they said no aussie areas would ever do that, and they had never seen a ski area reduce prices if conditions were marginal b4!!

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Dynamic Pricing

Variable pricing, ala Easyjet etc. is increasingly being deployed in different sectors. It tends to work best when applied to perishable goods - airline tix, hotel rooms and fruit and veg - think Safeway at 4.30pm when they announce the reductions.

I think time skiing on Scottish snow is perishable but the key driver for implementing dynamic pricing is yield management. Someone needs to do a lot of sums to work out the overall yield. If I sell 400 cheapo season tixs upfront I can sit on a float of X at the bank. So I can then discount quite period sales by Y percent and jack up popular times of demand by Z percent. overall the yield is XX percent better than the old pricing structure. Their are applications for doing this but they cost. I

So it all boils down to what CML wants/has to spend its money on. It sounds like it may want to employ some more pistebasher drivers before it hires an MBA to do yield mgt. Beggars can't be choosers

Some lift companies in France sell blocks of tickets upfront to operators at the beginning of the season. Its not just for convience. Your rep punts them so hard becuase the lift company pays a divdend back to the tour operators at the end of the season. I guess it has some sensible cash flow justification.

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Regarding Australian resorts.

At Hotham in Victoria, if you have booked your holiday there is a money back guarantee if you can't ski because of lack of snow. What this tends to mean in practice is that during drought or warm weather the snow guns are working overtime. A lesson we can learn here maybe?

[www.mthotham.com.au]



Regarding Scottish ski areas:
Why is it not possible to book lift passes online on the year 2004?

Why does the Lecht seem more snow-sure than the other areas? maybe it is just a coincidence, but everytime I've been to the Lecht, there has been masses of snow all over the mountain!

My boarding holidays have always been a part of a longer holiday in the Highlands. Maybe better marketing could attact people to the idea of holidaying at home here in Britain rather than abroad, and maybe skiing/boarding could be a part of that holiday.

On that note, has anybody seen the Visit Scotland adverts running in the cinemas? Not a drop of snow in sight.......

Quote:
Regarding Scottish ski areas:
Why is it not possible to book lift passes online on the year 2004?

Because the so called "rack rate", ie price of any type of lift pass is set on the day, often only minutes before the ticket office opens!

There are options around it on a small scale operation, but on large scale the problems are large, plus you still have to collect the ticket. (The exception is Nevis Range, because of the access lift they sell tickets using the Keycard system, if the lift pass isnt full-price, it's carried over... But all the other areas use visual tickets because u could join in from many different lifts.)

A useful option would be credit card machines where u swipe ur card, select the ticket u want it spews it out. Would help reduce queues in the ticket offices.

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that's a brilliant idea. Book your ticket online, but pay on the mountain by swiping your card.

VAT Issue

Bit bizarre but I was searching for mentions of skiing on the South Downs (desperate, I know) and Google returned a interesting little results. One of the MEPs for this neck of the woods has in the past raised the case of the French excluding BASI instructors from France. The press release is....

[www.europarl.tory.org.uk]

The MEP is James Provan, he's up to speed with the ski industry, he's Scottish, chairs a EU Parliament committee on Tourism. Might he interested to hear about the VAT issue?

Just a thought

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Unfortunately MP's of any type in this country are not allowed to engage in issues affecting other seats. However this being tourisim related might be worth someone contacting this person.

I know because Charles Kennedy said he couldn't get directly involved in Glencoe because though he lives in Ft Wm, he's not the MP for there. I'm sure if Glencoe opened a good malt bar on the plateau he'd take a personal interest.... :p

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Reading the times today, maybe this thread should have been called the future of European snowpsorts:

"On a holiday in St. Anton last week, I was amazed to be in a T-shirt basking under intense blue skies and blazing sun at 7,500ft, some Alpine resorts touched 72F.

Under these conditions the previous week's snows turned to slush on many slopes.
These were all signs of a far worse problem: the Alps are growing so warm that the mountains are defrosting. Permanently frozen ground on the peaks is thawing and setting off rock falls and glaciers are shrinking at an astonishing speed.

What used to be cold and naked mountainsides are being conquered by plants: some species have been climbing up the slopes at a rate of 13ft a decade as temperatures have shot up since the 1900s."

I reminds me of an article in National Gepographic 15 or so years ago: pictures of grass covered ski slopes and empty chairlifts of Europe's low lying resorts that were once snowy and busy in the 50s and 60s.

If someone/anyone can pull together a one pager on the VAT issue - key bullet points,

situation today
discrepency with Europe
example
where we want to be

I'm a constituent so would be happy to forward it too him.

I'm planning on riding at Glencoe on Easter Saturday so there is a genuine connection

"Dear MEP

....as I bought my life ticket I was devastated to notice I was paying VAT unlike my purchase in Val Thorens in January.......

I think he must have had a BASI instructor in his constituency to allow him to crusade on that one.

Cheers

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A book by V.A.Firsoff called "on ski in the Cairngorms" I believe makes mention of skiing on Box Hill in Surrey.
Also a book by Gordon Manley, "Climate and the British Scene" shows photos of skiing and some descriptions of skiing on the South Downs.
I seem to remember some caption against the photo such as " Winter sports enthusiasts enjoy the slopes of The Downs whilst the Alpine slopes are bare"
There is also a report on the incident of "The Snowdrop" in Sussex, the fatal avalanche that destroyed a pub when a larg drift collapsed.
Ther is a pup there to this day called "The Snowdrop"