OOOOPS, ma secrets oot, I'll admit it. I love pink and take-that! I'm glad ya never mentioned the dress PB..

It wis pure baltic that day, and did ya see the jacket i had on? If I'm boarding I never wear em, only if pulling rails aboot and digging big holes..

As for helmets, I do feel as if they obstruct ma vision same wi googles, shades are awright, though they dont last long.. I dae need tae start wearing a helmet though..

I'm not really a supporter of snowmaking in Scotland as a rule because I believe that much more can be done to collect, farm and prolong the snow that we currently get. This has been discussed many times before and with some great ideas of varying practical and economic sense.

I was doing a bit of surfing this evening (without the wetsuit) and came across this article about French snowmaking:

[pistehors.com]

Of interest might be the last paragraph - cheap cannons perhaps.

I also started thinking about burn courses on our ski areas and figured that there'd be enough water running through them to divert to man made snowmaking reservoirs that'd support their own ecosystem and supply water for snowmaking. There may even be an viable option to integrate a small-scale hydro scheme to provide some electricity to power the venture. This is obviously all off the top of my ill conceived idea and would need a feasibility study.

My whole take on the environmental side is that we've chosen to develop 5 hills in Scotland and granted they don't look the best, so what's a man made loch going to make any difference. I personally think it'd improve the view if it was done in sympathy with the mountain.

What's everyone else think?

Freeskiing.co.uk



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 23.00hrs Tue 24 Apr 07 by freeskiing.

I think you might have overheard us talking sometime,lol..

I've started on the thinking that more needs to be done on the ground first, with removal of rocks and some very good sugestions of creating gullys in those area that don't hold snow well.. It all has tae be looked at..

Proper snowcannons are no use here really, more so if the temps are to rise with the planet warming (before they drop )..They look good on paper and produce more snow for the cost of running conventional air/water guns, but the air/water make more/better snow in marginal temps, and will the outlay on cannons be wortn the amount of time they are used at their maximum compared tae the far cheaper guns?

Running water to power hydro and for a store of water is worth looking at, I'm with ya on the fact the resorts should get developed more and should come up against no greif, as their are plenty of mountains oot their. There are many wee burns that run accross the slopes and if these were piped and filled then less snow would be needed to open in the first place..

> I'm not really a supporter of snowmaking in Scotland

I have to agree with this sentiment.

The only thing certain about snow making in Scotland is the high installation costs. We ski on drifted snow in Scotland - and rely on deep gullys to accumulate the natural snow. Snow cannons won't do much to aid this process - despite what others might have you believe.

If money were available then any of the following lift improvement projects would probably be cheaper... and also much more worthwhile.

1) Cairngorm summit poma.
2) Lift out of the nevis range back corries.
3) Modern chairlift across the glencoe plateau - to replace the cliffhanger, and allow easier access to the higher slopes for punters.

Doug.

> I also started thinking about burn courses on our
> ski areas and figured that there'd be enough water
> running through them to divert to man made
> snowmaking reservoirs that'd support their own
> ecosystem and supply water for snowmaking.

I think this is what they do in the 3 valleys. It has the additional advantage that water from the reservoir can be supplied to snowcannons at lower levels by gravity, rather than having to use pumps...

Snow making could have made a difference in keeping the Cas Gunbarrel and/or Zig Zags skiable to the mid-station instead of often running out 50 to 100yards away. Something that on the face of it doesn't seem to add much, but being easily skiable to the mid-station on fairly decent runs would make a big difference in getting bums on lifts.

Snowmaking shouldn't be discounted lightly, but there also needs to be a much more coherent and meaningful attempt to manage the existing snow resource - by that I don't mean just last gasp desperate patching, it requires a much more thoughtful and pro-active approach throughout the snow cycle.

Quote:
We ski on drifted snow in Scotland - and rely on deep gulleys to accumulate the natural snow. Snow cannons won't do much to aid this process - despite what others might have you believe.

Also rely on the snow-fences, yet some of those actually work against the existing natural snow fields. A lot of research went into the use of snow-fencing for highway protection in the US esp, we need to carefully consider how this can be used in our field, this might be the best weapon we've got in getting max gain for the least £s.

A modest investment in the new double fenced link made the difference between the M1 run being only open a few days all winter and being on of the more reliable runs of the past winter.

Trying to improve interlinking between runs and increasing flexibility of how runs are used, ensuring snowfences have gaps that can allow fence lines to be crossed, managing the snow resource can all help improve the situation. Snowmaking should not in my mind be so easily discounted from the mix, esp where it could make a real difference in sustaining key links that are not as snow sure as some long lasting runs.

More, possibly quite a lot more can be done, and quite a lot can be done by working smarter with what we've got without massive capital outlay.

Some of my thoughts on this:

One area where I think CML could do more for very little capital outlay is to be much more proactive with the snow farming. Move snow around from where it can't be used to where it is needed - if necessary pile it up for later use.

For example there is often snow drifted in the wrong side of the elephant fence. This could either be blown onto the lady or pushed down to be stockpiled for maintaining the area at the bottom of the M1 tow and the link from the Lady to the M1 tow. Also what about the often big drifts on the link road - could these not be used a la Tosh for patching runs.

Similarly regularly piste out drifts from the fence lines so that they can catch more snow.

Also is it possible to put up some posts for temporary fences or fences specifically to catch snow for farming to be moved elsewhere.

From chatting to people limited snowmaking in and around the Sheiling area to maintain the zig zags/ M1 would be usefull as many people are put off by even a short walk so don't turn up when the reports say a short walk is required to reach the funicular 'midstation'.

I think the all abilities path is beeing modified this summer and may involve work around the bottom of the daylodge - if so make sure that changes are made so the daylodge piste and uptrack can be easily accessed by a piste machine even when the snow is poor at the very bottom.

Doug Bryce Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
> The only thing certain about snow making in
> Scotland is the high installation costs. We ski on
> drifted snow in Scotland - and rely on deep gullys
> to accumulate the natural snow. Snow cannons
> won't do much to aid this process - despite what
> others might have you believe.
--------------------

What about the Lecht? they seem tae do awright with it..

Apparently cml have "made contacts" with snowmaking companies at an expo in austria..... needless to say i'm not holding my breath...

what they asked these companies to do trials for nothing and their are going to help?

Be nice to skiers...they have enough problems already

Snow...Winter 2007 Thredbo will be full of it!

Posted on: Thursday, 19 April 2007
After a $4million upgrade to snowmaking the experts expect a 70% increase in snow production.

Thredboís snowmaking system was one of the most talked about topics in the mountains last season with its cutting edge technology, producing good quality snow and plenty of it. This year should see more of the same but even MORE!

Over the summer the mountain department spent in excess of $2million completing stage 2 of the automation process, so Thredboís already extensive snowmaking network is now fully automated. To date $4million dollars has been invested over 2 years to bring the new system online.

The first stage of the process was to automate 140 snow guns and this was completed for the 2006 winter season and it proved a huge success. In fact, ìthere was a 42% increase in snow production due to automation. Thredbo snow makers were able to produce around 350,000 cubic metres of man-made snow during the 2006 winter season.î says Werner Siegenthaler, Thredboís Mountain Manager.

Itís full steam ahead into winter 2007 Ö this season ìweíre aiming to make around 450,000 cubic metres of snow which will increase production by a further 30%,î says Mr Siegenthaler. This will be achieved through full automation of the system, installing 72 additional hydrants and upgrading of infrastructure to increase the uphill water capacity from 8,000 litres per minute to 11,000 litres per minute.

What does this mean for Thredbo riders this season? Quite simply, more snow, better quality, and greater coverage. Automated snowmaking guns were added to Ballroom at the Cruiser, skiers left on High Noon, Sundance and the Rossignol Racecourse down to Milk Run. So when conditions allow, Thredbo snow makers will be able to fire up more snowmaking guns than ever. In years gone by the system had the capacity to operate 70 guns simultaneously and with thanks to the summer upgrade, Thredbo can now operate up to 135 guns at any one time.

So how can that possibly be topped? There are plans to extend the snowmaking system further with snowmaking guns to be added to more areas and the uphill water capacity increased to 14,000 litres per minute. Stay tuned for updates!

skiing at thredbo sounds like going shopping at tescos:

?

?

huh?

What is thredbo ?

[www.thredbo.com.au]

Call me a anorak, but I quite liked the notes on grooming & how they define different snow conditions. Good also to hear foreign resorts talking about puddles,slush & bulletptroof ice.