Wrong thread, reposted in Cairngorm Snow !

Helen



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 01.31hrs Sat 7 Apr 12 by h11lly.

My thoughts have moved on to what will happen this summer, or based on the poor season what wont happen. Winter Sports are core to CML, they can make shed loads when its a good season, but this year I think highlights the need to have to look at real alternative revenue streams, that will have a longer term contribution to winter sports by generating more capital for expenditure and the badly needed increase in investment.

The Red Bull 50-50 to me is an indication as to how things could develop (this weekend looks as though it could of been ideal conditions) showing there is good cross demand for MTB and winter sports - as a non MTB it looked like it was well received, but I also think there would be a demand for a greater variation for different levels.

Anyone any other thoughts on alternative revenue streams?

As an aside CML seem to be doing a good job of setting up some events for this weekend at short notice - great to see.

Events like the 50/50 in good conditions could be very significant in raising the profile of CairnGorm Mountain and Scottish Mountain Sports in general - but it's no substitute revenue wise to a March with busy weekends with 1000s of skiers on the mountain.

One of the problems highlighted in the Strategic Review is that to date almost all diversification projects/proposals within the Scottish Snowsports Industry have targeted small, niche or uncertain markets - potentially increasing not decreasing business risk.

There is though one 'diversification' that would neither be niche nor a small market in terms of CML's customer base, the Glenmore Gondola. Coire Cas is the most popular point of access to the high Cairngorms, at present that is purely a burden on CML a gondola would turn it into a huge asset.

It's about the will and the capital, but where there's a will???

After reading about the £60 million pound gondola over the Thames on here anything's possible I suppose.

We just need to somehow incorporate Cairngorm into the greater london area for a few months, and the gondola will be rubber stamped in no time - cash no object

For Cairngorm mountainbiking seems like the perfect move, and with the funicular they are almost perfectly setup for it and there are many possibilities for brilliant MTB trails. And no doubt having lift served mountain biking would attract alot of interest from the tourism in the Spey Valley during summer. It seems an amazingly obvious move, especially how they are only Ski Area that doesnt offer mountain biking. But as we have seen they just about have their hands tied with the strings attached from the Funicular construction.

Not entirely sure how much money comes in from mountain biking at GLencoe, Lecht, Glenshee and especially Nevis. But I'm not convinced its enough if we were to have a trully awful season.

Re: Glenmore Gondola, That would take alot of persuation for me. Financing for a start would almost definitly have to be assisted by the tax payer. Which to be honest I don't really want to see, not after the funicular, and it would upset the already uneven playing feild between Cairngorm and the other ski centres, particularly Glenshee. But thats a different story. Not entirely sure how it would significantly increase summer income though?

Because the majority of people who reach Daylodge level in Coire Cas, whether going further or not don't actually put any money into CML.

Estimates of additional non-skiing passengers carried on a Glenmore Gondola ABOVE those carried on the Funicular have ranged from 95,000 to 145,000. The most accurate prediction for non skiing funicular usage, predicted an additional 120,000 users of a Glenmore Gondola.

The strategic review states the average non skiing uplift customer spend is £11.17. That's an additional £1.34million in revenue before you consider the new opportunities lower level uplift provide.

If Whistler's Peak to Peak gondola, an extravagant 30 seater with the longest unsupported span in the world, can cost £30m then how in heaven is the docklands gondola, which save for the towers seems a very off the shelf product from Doppelmayr, cost double? Somebody's taking the piss with this one.

According to the week's Strathy: ''Ski resort chiefs want to develop network of trails after poor winter''
The resort bosses want to develop mountain bike trails, a reception building for the new trails, access track and chairlift extension on land 1.2km north-east of Coire Cas carpark.
This is old news but it does seem that plans are being moved forward with the issue of a 'scoping document' which outlines the kind of environmental asessments that CML will have to undertake before a detailed planning application can be submitted.

Kind regards

Olderalan

I've not read much into this so the following may not be absolutely correct.

I really don't understand why CML wants to develop a new area for Mountain Biking instead of just using what they already have. The Funicular is more than capable of providing fast an easy access to a wide variety of potential trails and minimal investment would be required to get it off the ground.

Sure they would need to negotiate with the enviromentalists but no doubt some sort of agreement can be made. After all Mountain bikers dont tend to wonder aimlessly around a hillside like hill walkers, they tend to stick to the trails.

Also I dont understand how they are still suggesting this despite totally not being in a position to invest such vast quantitys of cash on a project that may not even take off as well they would like. And following the funicular and facility upgrades I dont think CML are worthy of more public money just yet.

I cant remember detail off hand, but MTB will not be able to use the train as its a closed system. The proposal to develop the Ciste side for MTB will have some intial immediate benefit to winter sports as it will provide better facilities at the car park level and phase two was to re-instate the WW chair. Maybe not a popular choice for some but it has it merits.

Alan suggested a Gondola, I have nothing against this - just not sure where the funding will come from.

Neither chair first is an ideal solution because neither chairlift can fulfill it's potential without the other, but my concern with what is being proposed is the extension to the Ciste Chair. Which on the face of it makes the future reinstatement of the West Wall Chair more unlikely because you will have lost the interchange station that made these two lifts a cohesive whole.

I know what you mean (about the closed system) but thats just politics and with all politics rules can be changed. The idea of investing somewhere in the region of £1m, maybe more, on new facilities just to bypass a written rule just seems absurd. Its a no brainer.

I'd love to see the two chairs spinning again dont get me wrong. But in business terms it just doesnt make sense financially (regarding mountain biking). And if the public does end up forking out for it then that is totally insane.

Also, running mountain biking through the Funicular would obviously increase traffic on it. And during the summer months would mean it would get much better use and could really contribute to its financial stability. I'm sure its been discussed many times on here but from what I heard the Funicular doesnt make CML much of a profit, certainly not enough to pay itself off yet. In fact last I heard it was loss making. Dont know if thats true (I probably heard that from the Cairnwell T-bar as with all my other stories) but if anything that strengthens what Im getting at.

Maybe the funicular should have a disco car, like the old couchette snow trains that used to take overnight punters from Calais to the Alps. That was really popular. Or an authentic steam locomotive 'makeover' - obviously the choo-choo would still be pulled up the hill by the cable, but it would have a chimney pouring out real steam and puff-puff noises.

As for the summer 'closed system', the Ptarmigan building could be modelled on a WWII prison of war camp to encourage a feeling of camaraderie between inmates and a shared ambition to escape.

People love these authentic theme park historical features.

Several points on this, the Chairlift (and possibly the base building) are a refurbishment of existing assets which are the property of HIE. Removal of the closed system on the Funicular doesn't address the unacceptable lack of facilities in Coire na Ciste. There are not even open toilets!

The closed system can not be completely overturned for another 13 years without £2.8million of EU objective one funding grants becoming repayable for breaching the contract clauses with regards to the protected EU sites to the South and West of the Ski Area boundary.

£1m for additional facilities that enhance the visitor experience, improve access to the mountain or £2.8m for absolutely nothing? Providing the West Wall Chair is refurbished as a phase 2, it renders the closed system effectively meaningless anyway without rewriting any rules or breaching any contracts, anyone wanting mountain access uses the chairlifts.

Its a bit of a mess really, it seems CML is in a bit of a pickle with contracts and whatnot. If closed system contracts were not a problem then they could open for Mountain biking effectively tomorrow without spending a penny, maybe a couple of grand to kit themeselves out appropriately and of course to get insurance. But if you ignore the words on the cotract then its not too dissimilar from if Nevis Range suddenly decided to stop Mountain biking via the Gondola and build a new chairlift instead. I do see your point but you must surely see mine?

The harsh reality is that they don't have alot of funds to invest (particularly how the whole opperation doesnt seem to make a clear cut profit as is), and until they do setting up another financial burden doesnt seem to be the answer. But legally there isnt an easy way out, as you said.

But in my oppinion the Funicular is a bit of a joke really. ~£20m (or whatever the total figure was) and you cant even go mountain biking.





Edited 1 times. Last edit at 10.33hrs Sat 21 Apr 12 by cammyammy.