Sadly that is unlikely to become reality; lots of hoops CML would have to jump through first all which cost lots of £££. However it is their responsability to create a safe enviroment for their punters so it is arguably it is a cost they need to consider. Since it is uncommon to have such a severe avalanche threat perhaps they should consider contracting some experts to come up like they did in previous years.

They used to have an explosive store andSki Patrol were trained in the use. Sadly cost constraints prevented the replacement being included in the redevelopment

I seem to recall avalanches being blasted in the Ciste when I worked on the mountain in the mid-1970s, but that would need confirmation by someone who worked in the ski patrol at the time.

aye maybe I should have posted this here..

"hmm the ptarmigan cam looks peaceful but i susspect there may be a bit more wind up there with the camera having been knocked onto the floor of the hut.

just wanted to say kudos to cairngorm team who`ve ramped up and kept the skiing going this late in may, well done".

It's a bit much to claim the people were reckless, do you know if any had their own gear or had made their own assesment of the situation, if there is a real and present danger to the people in the cas then the people shouldn't be in the cas, who is to say it wouldn't have slid naturally if it was so close to going then who would you blame for all the trapped folks being there.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 10.41hrs Sun 13 May 12 by geeo.

I do wonder about you sometimes Cammy.... I don't agree that it's CML's responsibility to create a "safe" environment. They can't control the weather, wind and what people do. Skiing and boarding can be dangerous. They can only go as far as is reasonable. There is nothing to stop someone skinning up and then heading down the same line, and there never should be.

Good decisions must be based on a sound understanding of the factors at work, not an expectation that someone is looking after you.

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For campervan hire in Scotland visit [www.albacampervans.com] - Bhanaichean Campachaidh ann an Alba

DonaldM Wrote:

I do wonder about you sometimes Cammy.... I don't agree that it's CML's responsibility to create a "safe" environment. They can't control the weather, wind and what people do. Skiing and boarding can be dangerous. They can only go as far as is reasonable. There is nothing to stop someone skinning up and then heading down the same line, and there never should be.

Good decisions must be based on a sound understanding of the factors at work, not an expectation that someone is looking after you.

-----------------------------------------------------------
For campervan hire in Scotland visit - Bhanaichean Campachaidh ann an Alba

Unfortunately we live in a world with a Health and Safety Executive - they can review serious accidents and have the powers to close lifts. Based on this and yesterdays incident I think the Ski Patrol had to be seen to step up their response and take a stonger line just in case something more serious happened.

Now if someone had been caught and buried that required resue and recovery that would put a huge strain on the staff - would lifts have to close on the day to support this? How more pissed folk would there be then

I heard on the hill and read online a few comments about the SAIS saying there wasn't a high risk, only a 3. The SAIS stopped using the numbers for a reason, there is a widely and incorrectly held belief that 4/5 is bad and 3 is good. The definition for considerable risk is:



The direction of drift on the upper mountain, clearly indicated that the upper and steepest reaches of Fiacaill a' Choire Chais were accumulating additional windblown snow on Saturday morning.

Later in the morning a group touring which included 2 qualified winter mountain leaders skied safely a very specific pitch of Coronation Wall after carrying out a full assessment. Patrol expressed a concern to them that while they did so safely, people who didn't know better would follow and ski different lines for fresh tracks with potentially severe consequences.

I gather the advice on the Funicular changed because the intention was to open Coronation Wall as far as the black marker poles - but very quickly it became clear that even after the situation being explained to people at the foot of the Summit Path, as soon as people were on the Wall some just could not resist fresh tracks beyond the markers.

CML can not kick people of the mountain, but they can remove tickets which legally remain property of CML. Ignoring internal avalanche closures is one of few things that tickets will get pulled for here. Do so in much of the US and you would not only be kicked off the mountain, you'd be leaving it in theback of Sheriff's car!

We are very fortunate to have probably the most enlightened land access laws and greatest freedom for partaking in mountain sports in the world, but with those rights comes responsibilities, not least to not to put those rights in jeopardy.

what do they do for all area pass holders like myself then they cant get my ticket back?

and were they stopping everyone? i saw plenty of tourers heading up the path didn't see where they went though and the path was open, the very small notice at the ptarmigan said if you went under the ropes they would pull your ticket it was all very vague, saw them follow snowboarders up well actually they waited until they were at the top then went up behind on the skidoo



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 11.51hrs Sun 13 May 12 by geeo.

Heard the "try if you like" advice in the morning and went for a hike with my mate over the back of the summit a few times. The only sign at the path was high avalanche risk and a flag for 3/4 risk. then took a route down to the car park for lunch. On heading back up the train around 2pm there was no mention of the head wall etc so headed back up to the summit again this time past a sign that now said area closed and high avalanche risk.....at no time did i see a sign saying we wold take your pass off you nor did they give any definite warning in the train when I was on it. Now I admit i was only on it twice but I was there to hike my turns that day so I would expect that most people like me would not have heard this changing advice that everyone was talking about.

It is a difficult one for CML to deal with however having a fixed and firm approach at the beginning of the day would probably have avoided a lot of this mess. Had there been a sign saying area closed (and naming the area in question!) with high avy risk sign and a mention that your pass will be removed if you ski these lines then no one can complain. Much on the same line Glenshee do with Glas Maol SSSI. The real issue appears to be changing rules as the day progresses and for people, like me, who didn't hear the new rules, because I was hiking, doesn't really help the situation

PS i didn't get my pass taken off my.

DonaldM, Of course CML has a duty to create a safe enviroment for the punters. Or at least as much as can be expected to. In fact I have even critised CML for being to safety concious in the past.

On occasions I have heard of/seen avalanches that have occured during so called "low risk" periods. Regardless of the avalanche "risk", the risk of an avalanche is always there and they will kill if they get the chance. They need to be respected and during times of particularly high risk perhaps CML should take a firmer approach to making sure no punters are allowed onto high risk areas. Precisely because even if they allow limited access then there will always be a few ignorant people who cant resist some freshies and then end up in trouble.

Ski tourers, well theres not much can be done to police them. But given the sport they take part in they should be undertaking the responsability to check SAIS forecasts and making sure they dont put themselves nor anyones elses lifes at risk. If they dont then no respect to them.

It may seem very nanny-like but with mountains being so accessible these days you often forget how easy things can go ugly. Avalanches are just not worth the risk, not one bit.

Can anyone recall the incident around 1978 when the top of the Cas lift was wiped out by an avalanche? I seemed to recall it came of the Coronation wall, took out the bull wheel and a couple of pylons which lead to the remodeled top station of today.

About the Cas - what happened to the announced oil boxes? Asked a ski patrol yesterday and he hadn't heard of them.

Slides have reached the top of the Cas Tow on several occasions I believe, but don't know details of individual events. I did hear yesterday a story about a slide from Coronation Wall taking out the bullwheel, and that the tow was subsequently shortened. I don't know whether that has any basis in fact but I always assumed the Cas Tow finished basically where it does, as had it gone further up why would the triangle on the lift line close where it does - makes no sense and there is no evidence I've ever seen in the boulderfield of the downline having being shifted.