I agree paul, but sometimes I think some of CMLs management forget this - particularly the bit about the cakehunters likeing to go outside when there is snow.

Also I think people should remember that Cairngorm has the best early snow record of any of the centers (from my experience) and has a pretty good late snow record (Glencoe may be better). So Cairngorm may well be the most viable of the skicentres if well managed.
One disappointment this year is that the lifts are not serviced and ready to run by the end of October. Bob often states that in these days of climate change CML will run uplift whenever available, but that snow is becoming less predictable and is lasting for less time between snow events so they need to respond quickly when snow is available. In that situation you need to be ready to go with lifts serviced and barred up before the possible beginning of the season. From previous seasons I would say that means being able to run from at least midstation up at the beginning of November.

dave

Actually give CML there due, when i was up in december they were doing lift tickets for £20, one child free per adult and a £5 off voucher for food in the ptarmigan. Thought that was a pretty good deal.

dhorsley Wrote:
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> Actually give CML there due, when i was up in
> december they were doing lift tickets for £20, one
> child free per adult and a £5 off voucher for food
> in the ptarmigan. Thought that was a pretty good
> deal.

They only did that in the beginning. After that they reverted to charging £28 for standing in a massive queue for a single tow.

In fact, I complained about the pricing policy on Bob's blog, which was duly moderated. FYI I receved the following canned response in reply:



Dear Sir/ Madam

In response to your Blog posting.

Bob is now on leave and in his absence I am reviewing the Blog postings. It is not the intention that Bob responds to every individual Blog posting but he will look at the build up of comment and use these as potential material for future blog postings.

In Bob's absence and with regard to your specific comments on pricing I have provided some information below which I hope will give you some insight into the issues that have infleunced the winter pricing policy that will operate this winter.

For this winter season we have removed the Beginner ticket from the snowsports ticket range and the headline snowsports ticket price is £28. This note provides you with information that explains why CML has removed it from the ticket range.

The beginner ticket was introduced to get those who had never skied before started and up and running on the tows. It reflected a need that skiers in standing classes and 1st day beginners ˆ anywhere on the mountain - should be making a contribution to the cost of running the snowsports operation. (pisteing, patrol, road clearing, snow clearing etc).

There is an area known as the Ptarmigan Bowl which is also commonly referred to as the Beginner area. The Beginner ticket used to cover the Ciste Ski Tow and the Ptarmigan Ski Tow was known as a Beginner Ticket (it also covered lifts like the car park tow and shieling platter lift).

The Ptarmigan Bowl will continue to be described as a suitable area for beginners but this is no longer relevant for the sale of ski tickets.

The Beginner Ticket no longer exists for the following reasons:

Our snow line has retreated so far up the mountain that in recent years the only snow we have on offer is in the Ptarmigan Bowl and our pricing policy has resulted in us honouring a beginner ticket price for all tickets sold when all the skiing we have is in the Ptarmigan bowl. This has severely limited income particularly when demand for skiing tickets has far exceeded the numbers we can safely operate in the Ptarmigan Bowl. This occurs particularly in hish season periods like Christmas and New Year and to a lesser extent at half term and weekends.

Over the medium to long term we do not envisage a change in the snow cover at CairnGorm Mountain. We expect that the reliable and consistent snow suitable for snowsports will be in the Ptarmigan Bowl. This is likely to be our only skiable area in future years and in order to maintain a business operation we need to charge accordingly.

Multi Day Snowsports Vouchers to replace beginner ticket.
We appreciate that removing the beginner ticket will result in some adverse comment and that is why we have introduced for 2007-2008 a generous discount on multi day snowsports vouchers. These vouchers can be used at any time during the coming winter season. They do not need to be used on consecutive days. Customers can buy books of 3 day or 7 day vouchers as follows: (%discount off day ticket price)
Adult Junior/Senior
3 day £66 (21%) £40 (£22%)
7 day £150 (23%) £90 (24%)

The price of the multi day ticket is only slightly more that the cost of a beginner ticket in previous seasons. So customers still have a cheap entry opportunity to ski at CairnGorm using the multi day vouchers.

From winter 2007 ˆ 2008 there will no longer be a beginner ticket at CML. We have a headline price ticket and using promotions we will discount that headline ticket price through a variety of tools including our web site, MFR and Ski Scotland and our web site. The discount we offer will vary from week to week and depend on a range of criteria including: high / low season considerations, available snow cover, anticipated business volumes.


Tania Alliod
Marketing Manager

It will be interesting to see what the outcome is this weekend,
they have been lucky in recent years with having more reliable snow, hence get more people, the tables have turned this last weekend quiet dramatically! and hence the punters have gone elsewhere

for the "moment" I am glad i never got a season pass for this centre, giving me the flexibility to head to glenshee - where they have far more lifts, and cheaper, and more challenging terrain available

Snow man Wrote:
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> They only did that in the beginning. After that
> they reverted to charging £28 for standing in a
> massive queue for a single tow.

And what do Xscape do?

the capacity point raises an important issue, and the ciste chairs tick all the right boxes.

Note how Cairngorm for the future apparently ^expect that the reliable and consistent snow suitable for snowsports will be in the Ptarmigan Bowl^.

It will be, if you neglect other tows and midmountain uplift!

Did Alan not create a plan (sure it was linked to yesterday) a couple of years ago which would have boosted capacity, improved runs for intermediates/advanced skiers and moved uplift to more snow sure areas.

Sure I saw a forum post from a few years back that basically involved moving about a couple of lifts.


Maybe all this snow will encourage Cairngorm to do something about the white lady (but I doubt it!)

"We expect that the reliable and consistent snow suitable for snowsports will be in the Ptarmigan Bowl. This is likely to be our only skiable area in future years"

I am disappointed to read this. It amounts to a declaration that the Ptarmigan Tow is the future core uplift.

With this rather timid Marketing position, you would not expect the mid-mountain lifts to be maintained.

HTH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>

cmorrison Wrote:
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> Did Alan not create a plan (sure it was linked to
> yesterday) a couple of years ago which would have
> boosted capacity, improved runs for
> intermediates/advanced skiers and moved uplift to
> more snow sure areas.
>
> Sure I saw a forum post from a few years back that
> basically involved moving about a couple of
> lifts.

I was looking at this thread earlier today:

[www.winterhighland.info]

I remember seeing the post as well about moving a few tows and possibly some snow fences to expand capacity etc. Worrying though the above reply from cairngorm though stating they view the ptarmigan bowl as being the only reliable source of future snow. This weekend its looking like all five centres will be open and with some great conditions on offer, lets see where the numbers decide to go. I'm looking to head up on friday and sunday, with cairngorm nowhere near my thinking for either day I'm afraid.

Snowman, the "quotes" are cutting your post out. - Can delete the "" or better login, to get full facilities. - H.

Anyone think the current snowsports pricing structure and lack of "good uplift" at Cairngorm will have an impact on the other businesses (hotels, shops, restaurants etc) in the Aviemore area if there is more on offer elsewhere?

Then again, the increasing "cakehunter" market may make up for any shortfall

I was considering spending a long weekend at Aviemore skiing with the family (2 of 4 are beginners) in February, but it looks like the snowsports costs would be considerably cheaper elsewhere. The overal result is that I won't be spending my cash in the local businesses.

A similar thing happened in the summer when the FC Glenmore campsite at Loch Morlich changed it's "management" and hiked the prices up. The result was that I went elsewhere which was cheaper and better and therefore spent my cash in other local businesses.

Anyone see a pattern?

Thanks HTH. Just meant to say in response to your message that that was why I posted the CGM marketing manager's words: if their 'vision' is that they anticipate their core business being on the ptarmigan, it is unlikely that we will see meaningful initiatives to improve midmountain uplift.